Jan 19

Jan 19 A Decent Proposal - How to make a Red Pilled, K-selected Proposal [testimonial]

Men propose, women dispose…. but only if you don't propose correctly.

Historically, courtship almost always ended in marriage.

Different western cultures had variations on their customs and the level at which marriages were arranged by parents and match makers however one thing was always clear. Courtship (now dating) was a serious social commitment to discover compatibility for marriage.

Generally the man or his parents would make the proposal to the women or her parents. Since he was to be the head of the household, the leader and the main provider it was up to him to decide and communicate what type of life he could create for his future wife.

The wall comes fast

Women have a very narrow window of opportunity to date, marry and have children. They don't have years to waste on indecisive or non-commital men.

Unfortunately some men are willing to string a women along for years without any real commitments. Even good men with good intentions often don't understand how to move the relationship along towards marriage. They don't even know how fast they should go. Men who are indecisive and unfocused in romantic relationships have become the norm.

Because of the attitudes and deficiencies just mentioned, good women are desperately attracted to a man who can clearly and assertively communicate what he wants out of life and his romantic relationships. Any man who can offer a straightforward relationship proposal that leads directly to marriage will put himself far ahead of most other men, regardless of his SMV. (Assuming SMV is not very low.)

To make this very clear. The assertive man who proposes a clear path to marriage as presented in this post will greatly increase his chances of becoming successful in convincing a good women to marry him.

On the other hand, if a man lacks the assertiveness to confidently discuss or propose the life he wants, women will not find him attractive.

Women should expect a good man to move the relationship ahead at a steady and predefined pace. He should be taking the lead, making you feel safe and helping you to adjust as needed.

Before you go out dating, before you look for someone to spend your life with, you need to know what you want that life to look like. Both men and women should start by spending some time thinking about how you want to live. You need to answer two questions:

What kind of life do you want? (Kids, how many, how soon, career aspirations, type of home, geographical location to live in, how you spend your free time, level of social interactions (introverted/extroverted), etc.)
What kind of women (or man) do you want to share that life with and what kind of women (or man) would enjoy that type of life?

What kind of life do you want in 3 years from now?

Men: If you know what you want you can then invite a women to join you in your planned life.

Women: If you know what you want you can then be receptive to the man that offers it to you.

Notes for women

You too need to know what you want out of life. Keep your wants and needs as simple as possible to avoid excluding good men. You should also know what negatives you would be willing to put up with, especially in light of your specific SMV, location and situation. On the other hand, don't settle for evil, toxic, degenerate men.

Acceptable negatives might be: Low income, health issues, less attractive, shorter, etc.
Unacceptable negatives include: Massive debt, existing toxic relationships, degenerate attitudes and more.

Most men today don't know how to be relationship leaders, or that its even allowed. Make it as easy as possible for men to express themselves to you. Be open, even invite these discussions. Take regular actions to prove that you can add value to their lives. Be appreciative of a man's assertiveness and any display of maturity or other good qualities.

Step 1) Propose getting to know each other

Men, take the lead here. Preferably, you would know a women socially through mutual friends or family before moving onto a romantic relationship. Unfortunately, that's not happening for most people and so we should use other options. Keep initial communications short and to the point. Omit anything that doesn't need to be there.

Written example (for dating site profiles):

In 5 years I see myself married to a happy, healthy, fit and loving SAHM*, raising our children. Over time Id like to have 3 to 4 children. We will be living a very happy but frugal life in a home we own located in a small and peaceful town.

Our free time will be mostly spent with a tight knit group of good, like minded friends and family. No toxic or evil people will be tolerated in our home.

I am a stable, mature (your age) man looking for a woman (her age range) to share the wonderful life that I am creating for my future family. The ideal women will want to follow traditional gender roles, be domestically skilled and very interested in making and caring for babies. If you think this is the life for you then we should get to know each other better.

(*SAHM = Stay At Home Mom)

If you DO know a woman in real life that you are interested in you can try a simple verbal approach. Be very direct and to the point, 20 seconds is almost too long to talk. Square your body to her, stand straight but not menacingly, look her in the eyes and smile while you talk.

It's like an elevator pitch for romance.

Verbal example (to ask a woman you meet IRL):

Im looking for a good women who wants to be a SAHM, raise my 4 children and grow old together. From what I've seen so far you might be the right women. Next Saturday I'm going to do ***something (probably coffee)***. I'd like to take you with me so that we can get to know each other better. I can pick you up at 7pm.

If this approach turns her off, she's not a good fit for you.

Sometimes men complain that women approaching 30 tend to treat dating like a business interview. For good women, especially as they get older dating really is serious business, so give them the workman like pitch they need to know you are the man for them.

Step 2) Propose an exclusive relationship

After 2 or 3 dates you should know what type of a woman she is IF you communicate clearly and assertively with her. It's your job as a K-selected man to boldly bring up these topics. You should be covering subjects such as:

How long you expect to date before proposal, and then marriage. (Timelines).
Your views on the permanency of marriage (divorce is not an option).
Your ideas about sex before marriage (none is best) and after (lots is great).
How and where you would like to live (lifestyle).
Children, how many, how often, how to raise them.
Roles (traditional or something else?).

Of course, you can only discuss these topics if you have them clearly sorted out in your own mind. The point of the conversations with your potential wife and life long partner is not to discover what you think about these topics, its to see if she's on board with your life plans.

Note: This is very different from how most modern dating is conducted. The most specific your plans the more challenging it will be to get a women who matches. Be firm but reasonable.

Once you know that she is compatible with your future plans you should propose an exclusive relationship. Your proposal should include the topics mentioned above. Be clear about what you want, get her to agree, then implement the plan. Don't fail to implement the plan you created or she will never trust you again.

Step 3) Close the deal

When you have reached the part of the plan where you should be asking her to marry you, do it, or not. After a few months of serious, mature and exclusive dating you will know if you want to marry her. If you dont, do not keep leading her on. Either propose marriage or break up.

If she says no or needs more than a week to make up her mind, she's not ready to get married, break up, start again. It's not easy, its heart breaking, however its going to prevent you from entering into a marriage that's cant last.

Measuring success

If you have gotten to stage 3 and need to break up a mistake has been made in the previous stages. Take some time and figure it out.

If you have not been following this timeline or hesitant about it, you are probably dating incompatible women. They may be incompatible genetically, attraction wise (height ratios, eye color, phenotype), culturally or due to personality. Next time, choose better which usually means choosing someone who is more homogeneous.

In a future post we will discuss the great value in selecting a mate that is as like you as possible (i.e. maximizing homogeneity).

This approach really works

One of the SMV4K members had this to say about his experiences using a direct approach to dating:

In response to Noah's latest article, I'd like to tell of my own experience that relates to the kind of approach men should have towards dating successfully.

At the start of november, I began to chat with a girl I met on OkCupid. We chatted for a few days and found out that we had a similar outlook on life and similar goals. We both wanted to have as many children as possible, we both wanted to fill traditional gender roles, we were both sick of modern living and instead wanted to live life with as little money as we could out on the countryside. She is an american by citizen, but scandinavian in blood (both sides of her family came to USA during the 1800's) and she had always felt out of place in America, and wanted to move to Europe.

Having come to a sort of impasse, what with the distance and all, I could feel that both of us were thinking ''this person is really interesting, but I guess we'll go our separate ways''.

However, I decided to give it my best shot. I proposed that I start to send her emails daily, writing about how my everyday is, providing pictures and also asking about and talking about deeper topics, like whether physical discipline is to be used with the children, previous relationships, potential red-flags etc. The girl in question thought it was an excellent way of proceeding.

We wrote each other daily. Coincidently, this girl just so happened to have booked a trip to Europe to visit her ancestral homelands. We had mailed each other for perhaps a week or two, when I proposed that she come visit me during her trip. She said yes to this.

As the trip was approaching (about mid-december, she was going in january) we kept mailing each other and I had made up my mind. I wanted this girl to be my wife. I told her this and asked if she was thinking the same thing. She said she was very interested in the idea in a pragmatic way. The life I was describing was to her attractive for her goals in life.

I then told her that I wanted her to decide whether she wanted to marry me or not when she visited. My reasoning was that it would be best for her to decide when she had gotten a chance to meet me, see if we actually liked each other in person. The reason I wanted a definite answer when she visited was that I was sure that getting back into mailing each other would result in another impasse, where we'd both eventually lose interest because of lack of decisiveness and because of how impersonal texting is. Also, since I had made up my mind, I wanted to take it to the next level, or move on to start looking for someone else. I was sure that I wanted her, and if she were not sure after she had met me, I didn't want her.

She said that she would decide when she visited.

Then the day came when I picked her up at the bus-station. I was very excited, but also anxious, sort of shocked of how surreal the situation was. I didn't say much the first few hours but it eventually got better. We went for a walk in the evening out in the forest, we walked for at least 4 hours, and would have kept walking had I not decided that we should head back.

While we were walking, as we talked some about marriage and her family, she said I think without realizing how important it was, ''I wonder how I should tell my family about this''. I didn't comment on it, but kept it in mind.

We continued our conversation in her room. I realized that I wouldn't be able to leave her room without asking her. So I just asked straight out ''So, have you come to a decision yet? I think you have'' she wanted me to elaborate on why I thought she had made her mind up, and told her of the comment she had made. She thought for some time on it, asked if I felt I was making a rational decision (I said I was sure of it, and explained why). She then asked me if I thought she was making a rational decision. I told her that if she wants to live the kind of life she had described to me, if she was 100% confident that that was the way she wanted things to be, she'd be a fool not to say yes (I said this in all seriousness).

To be continued...

Gotcha ;) She said yes. We are engaged, and we are both incredibly excited to spend our lives together.

I wanted to share this experience to show how far you can get by being confident as a man. Throughout our conversations I displayed dominance and determination, telling her how we were going to do things, when we were doing things and what my preferences were. I never forced her to do anything, she could say no at any point, I just made it clear that it was my way of doing things or going our separate ways.

Now, perhaps I have made a terrible mistake that I will live to regret (I am confident I will not), perhaps our commitment will not bear fruit (I am confident it will, I will make it so), perhaps we got engaged to to short a notice (I am confident we did not). I'm just a 25 year old guy so please, don't take what I have conveyed as gospel truth, don't think that my way of doing things is the way you should be doing things. I've always been very extreme, and you are likely not as extreme as I am. If that is for better or for worse, I cannot say (I am biased ;) ).

But what I do think you should take away from my experience is that as modern men, we have been stripped of our sense of dominance, courage and decisiveness. You WILL become better men and get more of what you want out of life (including getting a woman) by nurturing these male characteristics.